My post On Forgotten Realms Elf Lore: A Primer on What is Often Missed or Misconstrued (Part I) has made it clear I take umbrage with people who are hyper critical of elves to the point of inaccurate memeing. Some of these people reach the point of cherry-pick lore examples of elves being a problem, using them as the reason to conclude then always at fault for any issues they have. People critical of the problematic elements of the lore, or who have an issue with certain playstyles and the projections involved in elf playerbases, I am happy to converse with them. As much as I have issues with bad faith elf-hating, I take as much – if not more – issue with elf players who try to gatekeep how to roleplay elves and ignore problems that do exist in the lore. Their actions and attitudes feed into the issues that form with some elf-haters.
Numerous people who want to gatekeep elven lore and say authors envision only a narrow, one-dimensional, and superiority complex manner to play an elf do not know the lore they seek to dictate. People who say “elves do things better” and being serious about it do not know the lore they fawn over, either. Those who double-down and claim, when called on their disruptive behavior at gaming tables, as just playing an insular elf character, showing how unpleasant they are as a person, really do not understand the lore they gatekeep. These statements may make several people in the elf playerbases angry toward me, even as I speak as someone who loves the lore in both its good and its bad. Even as I discuss the very lore that raised me in the Realms right here, taught me her songs and communal bonds, and how to rebel in the face of evil (even within one’s own community).
So, in the name of being critical of my own general area I enjoy engaging in the Forgotten Realms, I am going to address what the more gatekeeping elf fans get wrong with the lore.
“Elves Do Things Better (Really, Not Joking)”
Some state this with intending to joke, and I can handle jokes that do not punch down someone. Unfortunately, I have seen some people say this enough, to watch their playstyles and the way they react to how other people play their elves, and see where it ceases being a joke. While like dragons, elves have an advanced magic and technological aspect to their cultures, they are not “better” or “superior” in the Realms.
Anyone who thinks elves the “superior race” in all seriousness completely missed the point of Elaine Cunningham’s, and even Ed Greenwood, Eric Boyd, George Krashos, and Steven Schend’s contribution to the Realms. They also miss some of the stories Eric Scott de Bie wrote regarding a sun elf exiled from Evermeet who in her hunger for power became a chosen of Graz’zt, or the remaining Dlardrageth scion(s) who gather power where they can. As some who dislike elves in the Realms point out, there are atrocities elves have to answer for in their past – and I will say, they generally do.
They have done well intended things and failed miserably. See the descent of the Ilythiiri who become drow as an example, as the elves who did the ritual only intended to condemn the evil dark elves and not an entire group. This decision being the best at all sometimes also quite debated. Creating Evermeet came at a cost and while it succeeded, the elves who did it never listened to the elves who said to not do it and it cost everyone greatly. The Sundering was bad enough that it ensured no one alive remembered it happened at all.
What I like to consider: the fleshing out of their own culture, possessing High Magic tradition(s), having lythari, Bladesingers, their own curry (Sornstag), and other cultural flavor in the Realms being just that. I see these elements as but Realms authors providing details to the setting and for elven culture(s). Prestige Classes focused on regions and different human ethnic groups or demihuman groups do the same for their lore in the Realms. Some like the details, and others find it overwhelming because they feel like they have to learn it because of elf players who impose that standard. No one has to like the culture or elven lore and those people have the right to just not play elves, or to play elves not raised in it if they want. Complete Book of Elves, the book ceaseless elf fans swear upon as the only book valid for elf lore, has an entry on elves raised by non-elves and the baggage therein.
Because there are some elf fans who legitimately believe elves are superior, and do not just play an arrogant elf at the table, it creates problems and a conceptual awe. This conceptual awe ignores the baggage of elves in the Realms. In truth, it is also a missed opportunity to play characters beyond a stereotype and meaningfully engage with the lore these same elf fans really profess loving in the end. While I am as excited and enthusiastic about elf lore as any other fan of elves in the Forgotten Realms, I also accept the failings of the elves in that lore.
Speaking of failings…
“Elves Did/Do No Wrong”
There are in the lore sun elf elitists who will downplay the wrong in their history, and I do not discount this here. What bothers me? When elf-players who lean into concepts with an elf-superiority complex and they themselves feel devoted and beholden to elitists being right. These people, Neverwinter Nights players will see as often eager to tell people that all elves must be like theirs and think alike, lest they call other elves as “just humans with pointy ears.” While there certainly persists a conversation about people engaging in lore they do not know about, these people genuinely hold no interest in addressing that concern at all. They do not convey enthusiasm, but desire for control and isolation. Elf players like this drive away people who may be interested in playing elves, or trying to get into playing elves, but see this play style and are suddenly off-put.
Elven lore in the Realms can be seen with them doing both good and bad. For the pride that they have in multiracial places and legacies such as Myth Drannor, which had predecessors such as Myth Ondeth, Eaerlann, Sharrven, Ardeep, Illefarn, Shantel Othereir, and Keltormir, they also had historical terrible elements in their history and culture. The Eldreth Veluuthra and Daemonfey exemplify the terrible aspects. Elaine Cunningham was not subtle when she had Prince Lamruil Moonflower write to someone about how “Kymil Nimesin is all that is wrong with the elven People.” Kymil Nimesin exemplified the elven elitists who started the Crown Wars, committed atrocities, and had dreams of Empire and felt entitled to rule elves while also oppressing non-elves. He would go on to break out of his prison with the help of evil powers (not the Seldarine, I point out), lead an army of elves with his mentality alongside historical elven enemies, and try overthrowing the Royal Family of Evermeet.
Kymil Nimesin’s mentality in the Evermeet novel had been noted clear as connected to the initial problematic actions of Prince Durothil when the Tintageer migration of elves came to Toril, but also what led to the Crown Wars. Importantly, such a mentality led to the creation of Daemonfey, or fey’ri, who felt their leadership was paramount to protecting Elven Faerun. Though Elaine Cunningham does not directly address the Daemonfey or fey’ri, their mentality parallels with Kymil Nimesin’s mindset and ultimately demonstrate an outgrowth of his ancestors’ ideas of superiority. Just like the Eldreth Veluuthra who would kill them if finding them, the Daemonfey also see humans as vermin. Kymil Nimesin of course, just like the Daemonfey, seemed quite happy to use humans to his own ends, exemplifying pragmatism commonplace in sun elven (sub)culture, but he saw them in the same light.
Elven elitists are generally the ones who not only seek to cause ruin for non-elves, but through their actions, intentionally or unintentionally, bring considerable harm to their own people. Just like elitists in the real world, their mentality acts as self-destructive, not with the end result of “done no wrong.” On the contrary, the authors have designed them as all wrong with the elven People. Anyone wishing to play elves with superiority complexes certainly can, but must accept the failings of the concept and why sometimes, other elves may not like dealing with them. Enough elves in the lore have learned the lessons of this mentality and do all they can to fight it. As noted in my article about how elves as a collective generally hold themselves accountable for their past, it is not unreasonable for some elves to scorn these types. Otherwise, elves of the Moonwood, High Forest, portions of the Dalelands, and other places would not exist. This cannot be glossed over in favor of romanticizing the elitist concepts, not without missing important lessons.
It was also elven elitists who pushed for the Sundering, the loss of a lot of people – including elves. This all for a piece of Arvandor to be in Toril. Think about that.
“Elves All Agree With Eachother On What Being An Elf Means”
When you read both the novels and the different ideas introduced in the source material, you will find this as anything but the case.
There are some core common cultural principles and sense of identity, yes, such as the You and the We. Elves have reverie and commune, activities just as much culturally taught as innate to them due to the strong connection to the Weave they have. As a rule, elves also do all they can to avoid cutting down trees, preferring to use magic to grow their homes in tree-houses or from the earth into crystal or stone spires. Even fey’ri and Daemonfey will see themselves in relation to other elves, and value much of this; thus, fey’ri are hesitant to use destructive magic in forests even if it may hurt moon elves they scorn. Every time Sarya Dlardrageth’s point of view came up in the Last Mythal Trilogy, you sometimes forgot you read the thoughts of a half-balor because she came across as a sun elf elitist.
The mention of the Daemonfey is the most obvious example of how elves may not agree with what it means to be an elf. Daemonfey still see themselves as elves, even while many elves condemn them for their evil, imperialist mindset and their craving for power that led to them consorting with fiends. No good-aligned elf would consider House Dlardrageth good news for them. However, even elves not outright fighting eachother may have disagreements on what it means to be an elf. There exists two major ends of a spectrum of attitudes, and then those who are somehow in-between: the insularity and isolationism spectrum, and the progressive one.
Insularity and isolationism. More insular elves will find interacting with humans and trying to pass elven culture through non-elves naive at best. At worst, they see it as another path to being betrayed because of what the Netherese did to elves after learning it from Eaerlanni elves. Insular elves believe isolation is crucial to continuing the elven ways and fostering a safe place for elven culture to continue. Unfortunately, the most extreme of isolationist elves become indoctrinated into ideas of superiority over others. However, the majority of elves – even insular elves – are not elven supremacists or the sun elf elitists that made Kymil Nimesin or the Dlardrageths prior. Many of these isolationists live in places such as Evermeet and Evereska, the latter of which had suffered many pains from outsiders attacking them. Such had made them more xenophobic over time. Despite this, these realms survive, and are some of the few bastions of elven civilization that remain.
Progressive elves. Generally speaking, progressive elves find going away from elitism and making alliances with non-elves who would have the elven People live, ideal for protecting their culture. Progressive elves in the past once had more kingdoms than more insular elven regions. Keltormir, Shantel Othereir (and once vassal realm Ardeep), Illefarn, Sharrven, Eaerlann, Myth Ondeth, and later Myth Drannor strove toward this. None perfect with it, these times had been marked by notably more cooperation with non-elves in these Realms. Myth Ondeth had orcs among them who did not follow Gruumsh, raised amongst dwarves and elves who they might otherwise war against.
Some of these Realms also became known as extraordinary for their time periods when it came to interracial harmony when compared to other places. In kind, the source material and Realms authors point out to more acceptance of mixed-race elves and half-elves. Nobility were also held accountable to the people they represented, not allowed to have malice in their hearts without consequence. These examples of progress always faced decline or an invasion by demons and monsters that destroyed their civilizations. Shantel Othereir was destroyed by both destabilization and colonization by the Vyshantaar Empire and then the Ilythiiri who came in and destroyed the colonized region. Some other monster and demon invasions had been instigated by fey’ri, the embodiment of extreme elitism, who felt offended by the existence of such realms.
Several elf-fans who call themselves loremasters and purists of the lore suggest that there is no such thing as these divisions for “real elves.” They completely dismiss not just the above considerations, but also gloss over (at best) some important areas of disagreement that elves face in the lore. Beyond the whole being insular, or inclusive, or somewhere in between, there are some additional controversial topics elves have, or easily debate.
Eldreth Veluuthra. The Eldreth Veluuthra have some sympathizers, including high society individuals who make themselves out to be progressive, but are in fact secretly undermining their peers and funneling resources to the organization. Despite this note, the majority of elves see them as a source of embarrassment at least, if not outright condemn them. If more elves sympathized with the organization than not, they would not be hiding their membership from all but their own ranks and few others outside of the organization. Because the Eldreth Veluuthra is such a polarizing issue, and a good way to destabilize elves and create further chaos with them, Lolth had granted their druids divine magic without them knowing it. Malkizid also secretly supplies resources to them for similar reasons.
The Retreat. One major source of historical trauma for the elves guaranteed to lead to arguments, even in the novels, is the Retreat. With the Retreat of elves from Faerun to Evermeet, a significant number of elves were left behind. Said Retreat factored into to not just the loss of elven lands, but also the fall of the Kingdom of Eaerlann. Elves insulated from what is going on in Faerun, particularly Evermeet elves, will refuse to acknowledge the cost to their People the Retreat has on them.
In contrast, some elves resent that the Retreat happened, and consider anyone who participated in it as having left them behind. While Evereskan elves in Last Mythal were glad to have reinforcements from Evermeet, enough elves felt abandoned by people who shared their culture and history.
Mixed-Ancestry Elves and Half-Elven Inclusion. Specific elites – particularly sun elf elites – already draw lines of who can be considered “truly elven”; they often do not consider moon elves “elven enough.” Celadrin, the “Surin’Quessir” or “People of the Celestial Places” who are celestial-descended elves and mostly sun elves, are regarded as both coveted for their magic potential (see: Araevin Telshurr’s regard by High Mages) while feeling subdued otherness. Half-dragon elves live in insular elven communities, yet their draconic features make them treated as partially monstrous looking at best. Half-fey elves who present more elf have an easier time in elf-only settlements, but anyone who knows of their fey ancestry may be respectfully cautious the way many elves are of fey.
With elitists among elves seeing these elvish groups in such a manner, it speaks to how they regard half-elves from standard species pairings, where half-human elves receive racial slurs. Half-elves who have a human or standard race parent are not able to commune, which creates another barrier of inclusion because of the crucialness of these experiences in broader elven culture. Some elves try to teach their half-elven children what they can otherwise, such as reverie when they can, but no matter what, more insular and conservative elves will not see them as elves.
Arilyn Moonblade, a famous example of a half-elf who strongly identifies with her elven heritage, has dealt with elves who pity her at best. At worst, several consider her unclean or filth – as Kymil Nimesin has demonstrated. However, there is also Prince Lamruil Moonflower, who had always been welcoming of her and Lord Elaith Craulnober who also has included her. To this end, elves are not universal in how they regard their half-elven children. They are another source of disagreement when it comes to practicing the Elven Way through no fault of their own. Some elves see half-elves as a living example of their decline, others see them as a hope for cooperation with non-elves – a burden unfairly placed on people just trying to live in the world.
Eilistraean Inclusion. Not all elves know Eilistraee exists, and some consider her nothing more than a myth. The ones who accept her existence may not know, or be convinced, she has followers who are dhaerow. With the Crown Wars history teaching of the destruction Ilythiiri caused, the Dark Court Slaughter, and many more atrocities dhaerow have been responsible for even in between major timeline events, Eilistraean inclusion in the elven People is a contentious discussion. Despite the fact that some elf fans suggest one must deny Eilistraee’s existence to be an elf, there are elves who believe in her existence. She secretly has support from the Harpers, of which includes elves. Queen Amlaruil Moonflower also secretly sponsors the faith through working with agents and deliberating ways to include Eilistraee on Evermeet, something only a few of her circle know. Eilistraee also has an open temple in the Moonwood, next to Silverymoon, both places having numerous elves.
“After the Crown Wars, Elves Never Kill Elves”
It has become the case that elves generally do not like killing other elves without trying other corrective actions first. This has become a crucial plot point with storylines regarding the Daemonfey, who had after starting the Seven Citadels War – unofficially known as the Sixth Crown War – faced imprisonment by elven High Mages. These High Mages had reform in mind, having wanted these Daemonfey to contemplate their evil for a few centuries.
These Daemonfey, however, used their time in forced reverie to plot revenge. It had become a running joke for some elf lore enthusiasts that problems in the world brought in by elves came to be due to their lack of willingness to kill these threats when they should have. Some suggested they should have killed the Ilythiiri instead of doing the curse leading to their Descent. There exists a common trend in how elves handle crime and punishment. In elven settlements, they will default to an exile or in a few cases, a curse or poetic punishment before they kill an offender. Even in elven Realms where multi-species societies formed, they held these same punishments to their non-elven brethren – such as exiles that had happened during Myth Drannon times. I intend to go into this in another article entirely.
Even as I say this and wax poetic on elven ideas of crime and punishment, elves have killed people. They may not default to the thought, but they have killed not just non-elves, but also elves. Myth Drannor’s last days had been marked by elves not just discretely removing rivals from other families in shadow, but open attempts to kill eachother as the Realm sought the successor to the Ruler’s Blade after Coronal Eltargrim Irithyl died. Before that moment, other elves have killed other elves in quiet, political intrigues. Such antics have no difference in how humans or even other demihuman groups have acted if one looked at history enough. Elves are in the Monster Manual along with orcs for a reason.
“My Snooty Elf Is Just An Insular Elf, Quit Trashing Insular Elven Playstyles”
People can play a snooty or an insular elf without raising a load of red flags for people trying to run away from these interactions. That includes having more nuance to a character that hearkens to deeper lore on why some elves might choose isolation that is not dependent on just playing a stereotyped racist. Those who love elf lore and die on this hill of needing racism in their game to feel it an authentic experience completely miss why elves have hidden settlements in the Realms.
Elves lack the numbers and power many other groups do in the Realms and the only reason people have not wiped them out entirely comes from either non-elves who help them or keeping hidden. I will fight hard on the hill that even them unleashing all the power in Evermeet, including secret spelljammer ships, would still lead to them losing. That does not sound like a group who has power to me.
Elf players who hyper idealize elves while going out of their way to play unpleasantly snooty or isolationist elves disregard the fact they really cannot afford making so many enemies. Somehow, these elf players find it appropriate to enter a non-elven settlement and being openly bigoted as if not touchable and can get away with it breaks my immersion like none other. Considering one Eldreth Veluuthra doing a stupid assassination in Tethyrean history led to massive genocide against elves, perhaps they might wish to keep such isolationist types in elven settlements.
That leads me to another, related assumption about elves that die-hard elf fanbases get wrong.
“Prejudice Is A Core Element of Elf Roleplay”
Elves are no more prejudiced than anyone else in the Forgotten Realms. People can choose to play such or not play such; everyone else does when they play a human, who objectively have just as much prejudices (if not more). Those who enjoy that aspect of the roleplay in a way glorifying it, in truth, bother me like no other. They drive away people who frankly, do not want to have their roleplay seventy percent filled with this sort of nonsense. More often than not, they project their own sense of superiority from their real life views and perpetuate the -isms I rather minimize in a game space. Such people also become the most defensive when consequences happen upon their character, especially when other elves might hold them accountable.
I have lost some good roleplayer colleagues in the elf faction on our game server over people with this mentality. Some of these people have even played more insular elves at one point, and had their characters in time of adventuring, develop a bit to have a little more nuanced a worldview. Such a thing exists even in the stories regarding elves in the Realms. Character development in stories is something not just welcomed, but expected, because no character, whether elf or non-elf, possesses one dimension or experiences.
Yet because some elf players had their characters refuse to tolerate Eldreth Veluuthra sympathizing characters, in a setting that would as a majority condemn such a group, they had been driven off by the players of said sympathizers. Some of those players will never come back, and certainly not from my lack of trying to bring them back. They saw a staff of both elf haters and hardcore elf fans who concluded these people play ‘by the lore’ so must stick around despite having all the problem player red flags mandating correction or removal from the community.
All parties involved in keeping these people around, including the trouble elements therein, completely dismiss the fact that for all the elitist examples of elves in the lore, there had been numerous societies where elves worked with non-elves. Myth Drannor was not the only example of this. Again, Eaerlann, Sharrven, Shantel Othereir, and arguably Keltormir and Tethir in ancient times had this. High Forest elves, who had eventually made Eaerlann again, also have a history of anti-elitism even while their Queen may have concerns about human encroachment.
That reminds me of where elf fans can do better: if they so wish to play a character wary of humans, they can do so in a way still collaborative with their fellow players and characters. They also can approach a character’s worldview from the mindset of someone legitimately worried about losing their home or how a short-lived good king might be replaced with a bad one. This technically falls in the realm of roleplaying prejudice, but less from a place of one-dimensional supremacy that seems to be the norm for xenophobic elves in Neverwinter Nights servers. Queen Morgwais of Eaerlann only concerns herself with greed leading to encroachment, not narratives pushing for elves being innately superior.
“Elves Are Default Good, Orcs Default Evil”
I will viciously and unapologetically fight on the hill and die on the hill that elves are not ‘white people’ in the critical analysis of how Forgotten Realms authors had written their lore, but I can see how some might assume people project white innocence on them. Because of how popular elf characters have been in fantasy roleplaying spaces, people now have this perception. I in my previous piece addressing elf haters compared this conceptual awe to how many weebs idealize Japan and neglect the humanity or personhood of Japanese society and peoples. This especially holds considering how the Realms not just have elves in the Monster Manual along with orcs, but have the history I mentioned in prior sections of this piece.
There had existed times in the Realms where orcs and elves, even in editions before the 21st century, had lived in societies together. One example that stands out: Myth Ondeth. Dwarves and elves in this realm had raised orphaned orcs among their own. Such orcs do not follow the orc-god Gruumsh. There certainly can be a conversation about how frustrating some might find there had not been the presence of a goblinoid god with no evil alignment in this place for them, but such a society all the same had existed in Realms history. Due to this, combined with the fact the Tuigan wars in the Realms led to many orcs settling in Thesk and coexisting with its people, no orcs in the Realms can be said as inherently evil. At most, one can only say they have many evil because they have the oppressive god, Gruumsh, who pushes them to kill anyone who thinks of living any other way.
In the deeper history of the Realms, per Eric L. Boyd’s contributions in the Greenwood Grotto, one also can find when certain elites among elves did a diabolically evil thing. They created a mythal called the Wyrmhunger, a mythal designed to make chromatic dragons favor orc flesh over anything else periodically. The only reason I will not say this is on the collective of elves? None but those handful of elitists knew of the existence of this evil weapon used against orcs. These elitists knew if the rest of their kind knew such a thing existed, something might have been done about it. Elven prejudice against orcs generally stems from concerns for self-preservation of one’s community. Thus, such did not always, nor should always, mean a devaluing of life, something anathema to good alignment in Dungeons & Dragons. Wyrmhunger in its existence had made victims of many orcs.
This segways into another piece of lore the authors had confirmed: the world where orcs come from had diverse groups of orcs and societies, all of which had both good and evil potential. The only reason why more evil groups exist in the Realms comes from the fact when elves discovered the portal to their home world, the portal connected to the part where a more evil group lived. Before elves could successfully close the portal in their fleeing and being slain, many of these orcs entered Toril. Again, as noted before, these orcs had hurt or killed many of their kind who might seek peace or coexistence with others.
The conclusion to be made from here is thus: both orcs and elves are in the Monster Manual for a reason. They are both capable of good and heinous acts. Elves are ‘mostly good’ because they had in the Crown Wars tried to, even if not in full success, contend with their most evil elements of their culture, the very same sorts who made the Wyrmhunger mythal. Orcs however did not have such a reckoning or schism among their own in a way, except in increments through situations like Myth Ondeth’s existence or the groups in Thesk.
I should note: guess who ends up destroying Myth Ondeth? A human follower of the Furies. Figure that.
Conclusions
Elves are not always the heroes in the setting, nor do they always do things for the sake of elevating themselves at the expense of others. People who only play elves as a vehicle for antagonistic roleplay and one-dimensional prejudice or superiority complexes because they want to exhibit such attitudes away from the table are a problem not just for elf fanbases, but entire roleplaying communities. Moreover, they never like to consider how elven lore in the Forgotten Realms includes places that exhibit the opposite attitudes they want to gatekeep as requisites for playing a ‘proper elf.’ Some elf players, no matter what expertise or mastery over the lore they wish to project, do not know the lore as much as they would like others to believe.
Just like a number of lore niches in the Forgotten Realms, elven lore has depth to it and while many elf players are enthusiastic about it and only just wish to show that, no one enters knowing everything. I was practically raised on elf lore, and I only know a few who could compare to how much I know. Sure, once in a while, like with the painted elves in a recent discussion, I might miss a detail, but usually I am the one providing the details. That much remains one of the few statements I can say about myself with no small amount of confidence; as an opinionated witch without relenting and without apology. Thus, I try to show as much grace as possible on how people play elves as long as they make an effort to learn what they are playing. I want to help people make elven concepts that work for them, not to conform to a one-sided narrative. Some elf players unfortunately do not do the same.
Dungeonmasters in gaming tables have their own issues with how they have portrayed elves or the lore involved. I will eventually write a Part III of this series to address just that.